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Reaction to ELD Proposal Goes Full Circle

July 1, 2014

By Oliver Patton

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UPDATED -- Comments on the proposed Electronic Logging Device mandate cover the full spectrum of reactions, from outrage and disdain at Big Brother government to applause for a sensible and long-overdue safety rule.

Most of the comments – 1,746 and counting – are from individuals who do not like what the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration is planning to do.

The core of the ELD proposal is the requirement that drivers who fill out paper logs must eventually switch to electronic logs. The proposal also covers technical standards for the devices and the supporting documents that regulators need to confirm compliance. And it sets requirements to ensure that electronic logs are not used to harass drivers.

The individual comments typically focus on the regulatory burden the agency is proposing.

James Bennett said he is a 30-year owner-operator with no accidents and is not sure he’ll stay in the business if he has to use an ELD.

“I do not need an ELD,” he said. “It does nothing for me and my operations or my bottom line.”

A number of owner-operators said that ELDs have the effect of pushing drivers harder during their duty time.

“I will have no choice but to drive in traffic, adverse weather conditions, and/or while fatigued because I can’t take a nap … because the clock is tick, tick, ticking away,” said Ryan Allison.

On the other hand, some individuals support the rule.

Charles Bolin said he thinks ELDs should be required on every truck.

“I would compare an E-log rule to a rule requiring employers to use electronic time clocks rather than handwritten time cards to prevent payroll fraud,” he said. “It makes good business sense and it keeps local companies honest about whether their drivers really qualify for the local driver logbook exemption.”

Henry Albert put it this way: “Quite simply, electronic log books bring accountability and compliance to the trucking industry.”

The major industry interest groups filed extensive comments addressing the details of the proposal.

ATA Supports Mandate

American Trucking Associations said it supports the ELD mandate.

“ATA is confident that such devices will improve compliance with the hours of service regulations,” the association said. The association noted that FMCSA data showed strong correlation between compliance with the 2010 hours of service rules and lower crash rates.

ATA wants the agency to move quickly, but not so quickly that it opens the rule to legal challenges. “The agency must conduct research and analysis to ensure that a final rule is judicious and defensible.”

The association also wants the agency to look for ways to promote voluntary adoption.

It pointed out that it’s likely to take three years to put the mandate into effect – a year to finish the rule and two years’ grace before ELDs are required for those who use paper logs. And regulatory delays or litigation could push that out even further.

Meanwhile, carriers that already have ELDs or that move quickly to install them will be at a competitive disadvantage against carriers using paper logs, ATA said. Paper logs, for instance, record time in 15-minute increments, while ELDs are precise to the minute.

“These inequities ultimately penalize early adopters and will discourage other fleets from installing ELDs before the final deadline to do so, especially under the new, more restrictive hours of service rules,” ATA said.

The agency could encourage voluntary adoption by extending the “grandfather” period for automatic recording devices that meet existing requirements, ATA said.

It also could give current ELD users a break by reducing the violation weight assigned to minor log violations in the CSA safety enforcement system. Or, give carriers additional credit for each inspection in the Safety Measurement System’s hours of service category.

Another incentive could be to provide a grace period for enforcement of the new rest break requirement, since compliance is more stringently enforced if the driver uses an ELD.

ATA suggested a number of ways to improve the proposal.

It said that the grandfather period for existing devices needs to be longer. The current schedule penalizes early adapters and will chill voluntary adoption.

Also, while the proposed location standards are acceptable for enforcement, carriers must be allowed to be more precise for security, safety and efficiency.

And the agency should look for a better way to identify drivers. The proposal calls for use of the commercial driver license as an identifier, which is an improvement over the earlier approach of using carrier-assigned driver ID numbers, but the agency should look for even better ways to do it, ATA said.

ATA disagrees with the idea of requiring carriers to get driver approval before editing ELD data. It said carriers should be able to make changes on their own when, say, correcting errors that don’t affect driving or on-duty time rules.

ATA also said the supporting documents requirements are excessive and unnecessary: ELDs will ensure compliance and eliminate the need for the supporting documents that police use to confirm compliance.

And ATA said the agency should look for ways to minimize the impact of the rule on companies that rent and lease equipment.

Enforcement Concerns

The Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance, which represents the police who enforce the rule, is concerned about the schedule for compliance.

The agency proposed a four-year plan that will complicate enforcement, CVSA said.

During the first two years, there will be three ways to keep track of hours: on paper, with grandfathered automatic onboard recording devices and with ELDs. Carriers that use paper logs will have to plug in ELDs at the end of two years, but those that use AOBRDs or pre-rule ELDs will have another two years to bring their systems into compliance with the mandate.

CVSA is proposing that there be a three-year grace period for all carriers.

“In this scenario, any existing electronic devices for recording driver RODS would no longer be permitted after the third year,” CVSA said. That would give suppliers time to meet the demand, carriers to budget the change and enforcement agencies to train their staff.

CVSA also wants the agency to be sure it accounts for what it will cost enforcement agencies to implement the rule. It suggested that the agency include police equipment and training in its regulatory impact analysis.

CVSA is at odds with ATA on the question of supporting documents. It agreed with the agency’s proposal but added that drivers should be required to keep the documents for seven days.

Another issue for police is drivers who use their truck as a personal conveyance. The meaning of “personal conveyance” is not clear, CVSA said.

It proposed a definition that says the driver may use his truck for personal transportation for a “short distance” -- to and from the nearest lodging or restaurant, or between his home and his normal terminal, but no more than 25 miles or 30 minutes.

CVSA said it supports ELD certification by the manufacturer, based on a standard set of compliance procedures.

Also, the devices should be able to import and export data from other makes. And CVSA wants the agency to make sure that the states have the technology and communications systems to access ELD data at roadside inspections – before the mandate takes effect.

OOIDA Comments

Comments by the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association read like a prelude to a lawsuit. The group challenged the legal, constitutional and technical foundations of the proposal.

It said the proposal fails to meet the legal requirement that ELDs automatically and accurately record driver hours of service.

Under the proposed rule, drivers will manually enter a change in duty status, which is neither automatic nor necessarily accurate, the group said.

“FMCSA embarks on this ill-advised program without any evidence that currently available ELDs, which require the manual input of changes in duty status, will provide the slightest improvement over paper logbooks which also depend upon manual input of such information,” OOIDA said.

Further, OOIDA said, the agency ignores the constitutional question of mandating a device to monitor driver conduct without a warrant. The agency should have solicited comments on this issue in its proposal.

“Without providing for the due process rights of truck drivers, the proposed rule’s imposition of electronic monitoring is an unconstitutional deprivation of a driver’s freedom of movement.”

OOIDA also contended that the agency’s cost-benefit analysis is deficient. It said the analysis does not address the question of who should bear the cost of ELDs, and it contains no credible data on the relationship between ELDs and hours-of-service compliance.

Advocates Approve

Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety endorsed the proposal, saying it is long overdue, but had concerns about some of the details.

One issue is that the proposal permits portable ELDs that drivers could manipulate to skirt the hours of service rules, Advocates said.

The group wants the agency to require ELD systems to have data storage that is hard-wired to the engine, so that the truck’s operation is logged whether or not the portable portion of the system is activated.

Advocates also cautioned against allowing log data to be transmitted through the carrier or an intermediary, rather than stored in the ELD.

“Each individual with the capability to modify a record represents an additional opportunity for the data to be altered or falsified,” the group said.

In addition, the proposal should include stiff penalties for violations, Advocates said. “The entire premise of the rule will be undermined unless motor carriers and drivers have a strong incentive to comply.”

Advocates also questioned the agency’s cost calculations. It said that the estimated cost of adding ELDs to existing fleet management systems is too high, as is the estimate of a monthly printer cost of $153.

Update adds Advocates' comments.

Comments

  1. 1. Lois Lerner [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:14AM ]

    It will work just fine. Nothing to worry about.
    If you get pulled over just say that you lost all your emails and your hard drive was destroyed.

  2. 2. Kelly Steed [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:15AM ]

    This ELD rule will cripple this country!

  3. 3. John Bowlby [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:23AM ]

    We have used electronic logs for years and the majority of our drivers would not go to work for a company that didn't have them. We recently had a driver leave us to work for another company after 2 weeks he quit because he was always running hot and couldn't even get a 10 hour break.

    Reading the comments against it in the article it's funny how they say the clock is ticking and they will be forced to run, can't take a nap, and so on, well that's how the rules read now without electronic logs so sounds like they are admitting to cheating and don't want the electronic logs because then they can't cheat? Why should you have to run more than 14 hours a day in order to make a living. In the end, e-logs will force the drivers pay to increase, so you make a fair wage for a day's pay so why would you be against that?

  4. 4. james [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:27AM ]

    absurd forcing driver's to drive tired,i have friends that drive with these devices and they have to drive tired because if they pull over to take a nap the clock is ticking against them while they are sleeping, and if they run into a backup they are screwed, the worst rule they ever made,we are the one's living this life stop interfering .

  5. 5. Kevin Otto [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:30AM ]

    As a small carrier we thought we would get ahead of the curve, putting 16 units in. The comment from the owner operator about tic tic tic on the time is correct. Drivers are forced to make decisions they normally wouldn't have to because the box is telling them they will soon be in violation. Let drivers do their jobs and make smart decisions about their hours of service, needed sleep, and traffic conditions. I am still trying to figure out if we are going to take them all out and go back to the real world of paper. Do truck drivers really need big brother in their cab? In the new trucks he is already there but at least in the background not staring you in the face.

  6. 6. Kevin [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:31AM ]

    As a small carrier we thought we would get ahead of the curve, putting 16 units in. The comment from the owner operator about tic tic tic on the time is correct. Drivers are forced to make decisions they normally wouldn't have to because the box is telling them they will soon be in violation. Let drivers do their jobs and make smart decisions about their hours of service, needed sleep, and traffic conditions. I am still trying to figure out if we are going to take them all out and go back to the real world of paper. Do truck drivers really need big brother in their cab? In the new trucks he is already there but at least in the background not staring you in the face.

  7. 7. Kevin [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:31AM ]

    As a small carrier we thought we would get ahead of the curve, putting 16 units in. The comment from the owner operator about tic tic tic on the time is correct. Drivers are forced to make decisions they normally wouldn't have to because the box is telling them they will soon be in violation. Let drivers do their jobs and make smart decisions about their hours of service, needed sleep, and traffic conditions. I am still trying to figure out if we are going to take them all out and go back to the real world of paper. Do truck drivers really need big brother staring at them every day?

  8. 8. John Bowlby [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:34AM ]

    We have used electronic logs for years and the majority of our drivers would not go to work for a company that didn't have them. We recently had a driver leave us to work for another company after 2 weeks he quit because he was always running hot and couldn't even get a 10 hour break.

    Reading the comments against it in the article it's funny how they say the clock is ticking and they will be forced to run, can't take a nap, and so on, well that's how the rules read now without electronic logs so sounds like they are admitting to cheating and don't want the electronic logs because then they can't cheat? Why should you have to run more than 14 hours a day in order to make a living. In the end, e-logs will force the drivers pay to increase, so you make a fair wage for a day's pay so why would you be against that?

  9. 9. Steve P [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:47AM ]

    Charles Bolin is out of the loop as local drivers do not need to keep logs. Only drigers that travel more than 100 miles will have to use them. The FMCSA will be pushing drivers and the motoring public into a early grave. After 42 years at the wheel with 1 minor accident it is the government and most of their incompetence that causes most of the un unintended problems.

  10. 10. terry [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:53AM ]

    Right you are james. Ive noticed a lot more agressive drivers since these things come onboard. Drivers may only be able to go 65 mph but stay out of there way. They dont want to slow down for a second for anyone. Nap? Who needs one? our bodies will never be intune with an ELD, but its time to sleep cause the ELD says so. Tomorrow I may need a nap. Thanks fmcsa.

  11. 11. Mike Welch [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:57AM ]

    Henry Albert, we already have a ton of ways the government us accountable. You can't go anywhere without a camera on you. You have a cell phone, satellite radio, credit card receipts, and the list goes on. We have scales and DOT randomly pulling us over at their will. Accountability needs to be on the shipper,the receiver, the brokers, the company owners. We are doing our job. All this amounts to is passing the buck. If this industry don't want to take the time to look at the real problems they sure as Heck don't need to put more rules on us.

    I personally have a record to stand behind. I know the majority of experienced drivers do as well. You can't ever convince me that a computer knows what is best for me.

    My job as a professional driver is to also know what is best according to the current conditions. That computer is just that, a computer. It knows nothing of negotiating weather or traffic. It has no idea if my body is needing a nap. So I shut down to keep from getting a violation. Take off when my computer tells me, knowing that I was wide awake when shutting down and tossed and turned trying to fall asleep. Finally 5 hrs later I fall asleep just in 4 hrs to wake up to my alarm saying it is time to go.

    This is a horrible idea. I predict you will have more accidents and less productivity at the end of the day. I hope I am wrong.

  12. 12. Jeff [ July 01, 2014 @ 07:57AM ]

    Reading some of these comments are exactly why ELDs should be mandated for every truck. Clearly, there are too many out there that disregard the hours of service regulations. The ELDs do not make people drive tired. Yes the clock is tick, tick, ticking. The same way it is tick, tick, ticking when using paper logs. However, the ELDs take away the drivers ability to falsify their logs, tear out a page, and start over as it suits them. We changed to ELDs and I am certainly glad we did. The reason our industry is looked upon in a negative light is because of the drivers that falsify their logs and disregard hours of service regulations. The days of the renegade drivers are in the past and we need to look to the future. Drivers that disregard regulations should have their license revoked. Our goal should be to clean up this industry, and ELDs are a very effective tool for accomplishing that goal.

  13. 13. Armand [ July 01, 2014 @ 08:40AM ]

    Log books will force drivers to drive late night to make his hours of driving. Driving late like 2 3 4 in the morning is dangerous. I know that every experience driver know that, that will cause more accidents just remember. DOT law makers doesn't know shit.

  14. 14. Tracy Morgan [ July 01, 2014 @ 09:09AM ]

    Sure glad that Walmart driver was using an ELD when he smashed into us at 65 mph. Somebody could have really been hurt if he had been using paper logs.........

  15. 15. Gus [ July 01, 2014 @ 09:12AM ]

    We don't need them at all !! I don't want a computer to tell me that I have to go to sleep when I'm not tired I will pull over when I feel I'm tired and take a 30minute break then continue my travel to my destination. This is all about money and to control the drivers it all a power trip the new world order they say well I sure don't like it if it happens I will look for another job. Who's going to fund this eLd I don't need to pay more money to run the same route what they need to do if fix the roads and continue to monitor them I pay road tax and the roads have a bunch of pot holes every where. Terrible idea to use ELD !!! Sounds to me someone is just passing the buck...

  16. 16. William [ July 01, 2014 @ 09:20AM ]

    Drivers got on SiriusXM radio and told the whole world that they could not do it on Eobr, but they could on paper, that was telling everyone that they lie on paper, hell yes eobrs should be in every truck.

    If you cannot do it electronically, you cannot do it on paper !!!

  17. 17. brad [ July 01, 2014 @ 10:49AM ]

    Wow.There is a lot of comments from drivers that don't have to pay out of there pocket for an eld.I own my truck and I run legal.No one tells me how to run but me and no one should be able make me buy a device that I don't need to safely run my business.Every right you give away to choose whats right for yourself doesn't just affect you.

  18. 18. JL [ July 01, 2014 @ 10:49AM ]

    Maybe the focus should be on changing the HOS rules so that truck drivers can be more flexible in their time management. The reason people are pressured by the EOBR's is because it holds the driver to the schedule on the dot. Here are two different scenarios:

    A driver with paper logs starts his time and three hours later hits traffic and bad weather. He pulls into a truckstop, takes a three or four hour nap, wakes up, traffic is thinned out, weather stopped, and he goes again, adjusting his paper logs. Instead of putting himself and other drivers in a dangerous situation, he is able to rest and relax while avoiding driving in dangerous conditions and sitting in traffic wasting fuel and can deive when it's safe.

    A driver with an EOBR in the same situation has two choices. Keep fighting his way through traffic to get as far as he can while he has time available, or stop at a truck stop to wait out the weather in a safer situation, but completely lose the time he spends sitting there. He can't relax because he needs to keep an eye on the road and weather conditions to get back out there ASAP. His time is draining away, his remaining 11 hours dwindle down to 8, he's pressed for time, and stressed, and can't afford to stop again to avoid rush hour traffic, or eat, or nap if he gets tired, b/c if he does, and he misses his appointment or runs out of time and ends up a day late, he might be charged a fine, he may end up with ruined cargo, he may lose a customer...so he runs, tired and stressed to get the job done.

    Which of these two drivers would you rather have on the road? My problem is with the HOS, not the EOBR'S. They are supposed to be making trucking safer, not more dangerous, but in my experience, that's exactly what they're doing.

    Someone on here asked why a driver would want to work for more than 14 hours a day anyway, but that's not what opponents of the HOS rules and EOBR'S are saying. They want the ability to manage their own hours, drive time, and sleep time as they see fit. 10 hours off duty is reasonable by anyone's standards, but drivers should be able to divide it up at their own discretion.
    So, I'm okay with EOBR'S...but I'm not okay with HOS as they stand right now. They make the road a more dangerous place.

  19. 19. brad [ July 01, 2014 @ 10:50AM ]

    Wow.There is a lot of comments from drivers that don't have to pay out of there pocket for an eld.I own my truck and I run legal.No one tells me how to run but me and no one should be able make me buy a device that I don't need to safely run my business.Every right you give away to choose whats right for yourself doesn't just affect you.

  20. 20. Steve [ July 01, 2014 @ 12:23PM ]

    Well,Electronic logs would be ok if the law didn't force you to drive when your asleep and sleep when you're awake. Werner Enterprises was one of the 1st to use these logs and when I recently asked a Werner driver why they no longer had Pre-Pass he said Werner drivers were wrecking trucks left and right. I think that's proof enough that the Govt God minds are in fact stupid.

  21. 21. Peter D. Ohmart [ July 01, 2014 @ 03:15PM ]

    If people like a lady who I met last week, who runs her own business assisting companies with the CSA system, who has never turned a wheel, are telling companies just how dangerous those big trucks are on the highway, should told to get off the stick! She is nervous because she feels she has first hand experience.

    Now, I feel there are AT least two things wrong with this picture:
    A) How the hell can you properly write anything if you have no experience in the field?
    B) The CSA system is getting rid of drivers, including the safe drivers, from the industry. I can expand on that another time as I have first hand experience.

    This is the problem with the ELD's. The system has too many flaws in it:
    a) Such as all the ones mentioned above
    b) Mostly, are the restrictions on when a driver can or cannot log into the system.

    I had a electronic log system that I purchased for my computer and loved it accept for that reason. It actually got me out of trouble when it came to unjust fines because at that time the troopers could look back for 3 years of logs and see how accurate I had kept them.

    The most important thing is a driver needs to be able to log on, make changes as he needs to make them in that particular day or 24 hour time frame. I feel after the 24 hour time frame there is no need to change any portion of the logs!

    Before the log and HOS can properly be changed so to accommodate the real-life situation of the driver, there is many things that need to be rectified. The driver needs to log and off as is necessary, and it is up the individual company to monitor their drivers for illegal logs, not the government.

    I did stop driving and sold my business, and returned to college to achieve a degree to assist the trucking industry. The industry has shunned me for doing that.

    Good luck and I will be glad to help in any way I can.

  22. 22. randy ass [ July 01, 2014 @ 06:31PM ]

    What if a person has a truck that is not newer and does not have electronic

  23. 23. JL [ July 02, 2014 @ 02:35AM ]

    What is the average cost of installing one? Does anyone know?

  24. 24. Patrick [ July 02, 2014 @ 05:33AM ]

    ELD's are not the problem, the rules that surround them are. The FMCSA imposed rules with out thinking the implications through and accepting erroneous data.

  25. 25. BarbRRB [ July 02, 2014 @ 05:56AM ]

    Should me a choice not mandatory.
    It is about Government control. They have so much no it scares me. I have nothing to hide I get Government clearence with ease. I believe you give a little they will take a mile. We are giving up our freedom a little at a time, proven fact.

    Wait till one of the BIG fleets gets their asses handed to them because of the ELD or wait till a driver gets 30 min from home and out of driving time.

    To much of a good thing will result in disaster. Look at cell phones for example with our children, our driving habits with them. People are loosing their life.

  26. 26. Mike Welch [ July 02, 2014 @ 07:48AM ]

    I wonder how Joe public would respond to a electronic device in their car telling them if they are fit to drive. Now wait a minute.....they are sharing the same highway as a Truck. If there is a accident, no matter who is at fault. The car can cause as much damage as a truck. If the car causes the truck to be involved. Wonder why we wouldn't be more strict on educating a car driver on the safety of a truck. My point, you are passing the buck on the trucking industry. You can take the driver out of the truck and let a computer drive it down the road. You will still have truck accidents. Ppl hate trucks. All they do is hold them up when they are trying to get somewhere. I will venture to say 10 to 15% of the public understand why a truck is on the highway. The rest are flat clueless. If you don't drive don't respond. You have no idea what you are talking about. You know nothing about delivering to HEB in TX and being stuck at a dock 7-8 hrs to unload a partial load. Might I add if you don't do yourself you will have to pay them to unload. They bought it. Why am I paying to unload it? Electronic log ppl. How do you handle this situation? Well I guess at the end of the day we will all live in a perfect world if we can just make some more rules for those out of control drivers. Stop preaching to me about a problem you obviously have no intentions of fixing. If you address the real problem you might lose some campaign money. Now we wouldn't want that now would we. This is a joke. Over 2 million accident free and no logbook violations. What would I know

  27. 27. steve [ July 02, 2014 @ 09:44AM ]

    The more we let them push us around the worse it will get .ata Is for ups. yellow . Union who pays them to say Wat Thay want them to say

  28. 28. lastgoodusername [ July 06, 2014 @ 04:40PM ]

    If the hours of service hadn't been so out of touch with reality , no one would have had to cheat on a log book in the first place. But they were set in stone and to make everything work , EVERYONE , had to bend the rules. Some went to far , as with human nature. But it sure is going to be interesting to watch when the day comes and we all run to the letter of the law. What will be even more "fun" is when small carriers like myself start losing work because of it. My trucking is different from yours , but there is no room for that. I built my business on customer service. Delivering freight, on time and without damage or fan fair. Assholes like Henry Albert and the rest have a very short memory. Never had to ride a little longer to make a pickup or delivery, to get home, to complete a trip because of problems. What the trucking industry needs to do is quit acting like a bunch of babies. Trucking is a tough job. Promises kept often mean other promises broken. The trucking business has always been the "give and take", the shock absorber of the country. Great idea to replace the shock with a rigid bar.

  29. 29. DAWG [ July 18, 2014 @ 04:20AM ]

    all this stuff is gonna do is put more inexperienced kids on the road to take up the slack for not being able to run like the industry should. i'll be the first to say i enjoy my mandated half hour break. the dispatcher and owner have no say so in that break. the problem i do see in this device is the traffic jams, breakdowns, the scale masters trying to train new coop kids. all take up valuable time. too many coops are using trucks as a way to create revenue shortage make up. take new mexico port of entry. they could care less if you have eld's. they pull you in every time you come through. most times they have trucks stacked up in back checking paperwork regardless of how many times you have pulled through. i foresee many rigs parked along the side of the highway out of hours while trying to remain compliant. my question is simple. when will big brother rack down on surgeons and cops? both can go hours without rest. guns and scalpels aren't anymore safe in tired hands than trucks.

  30. 30. Bob [ July 18, 2014 @ 05:51AM ]

    My eobr freezes up all the time so i lose hours off my 70, I am in the shop all the time never gets fixed then I don't get the miles because of down time

  31. 31. Lance [ July 18, 2014 @ 06:22AM ]

    I have had 40 years OTR, 4 million miles in tractor-trailers, never had a speeding ticket or a chargeable accident and never been shut down at a scale. Perfect driving record. Just because I have a mechanically injected truck, which had never broke down on me in 7 years I had that truck, I was forced into early retirement. I am not about to own a truck with an ECM because I have had nothing but problems with the computer junk in the past. Rates are so cheap, it does not pay to buy a newer truck. Hours of service regs now just make it dangerous for a driver and the motoring public. Biggest problem was when they eliminated the split break. Current regulations do not allow a tired driver to split up the hours to get some rest. Back in the old days, before deregulation, trucking paid so well that drivers that were not good drivers got fired, and there was a big list of people wanting to drive truck and do a good job and maintain a good safety record or they would be fired. Back in those days, if the stinking government had come up with rules like these those drivers would have shut the whole industry down. 90% wimps out there anymore. So because of these idiotic rules, I was forced into early retirement. Next thing you know, Obama will be putting illegal aliens in trucks at 18 years old.

  32. 32. AnotherTrucker [ July 18, 2014 @ 06:38AM ]

    Of course the ATA is all for ELD on every truck. Look who makes up the ATA... Companies that can afford to buy 10k new trucks and 30k new trailers and set up D&H every 500 mi. Small fleets and OO can't compete with that. Add long as we continue to bicker amongst ourselves we are bound for extinction. Unless we OO. Stand together and become a voice in DC like the lobbyist the ATA has then our fate as small business owners is dismal at best.

  33. 33. Nick [ July 18, 2014 @ 06:39AM ]

    Vehicle mounted ELDs will only hurt guys like me that hotshot with a one ton. That is my personal vehicle that I haul my camper with, and take my wife and kids to grocery store in. Why should I have to comply with a set of rules (poorly) designed for full time commercial vehicles? I currently use an ELD program on my tablet, and I happen to like it pretty well.

  34. 34. David [ July 18, 2014 @ 08:15AM ]

    The real problem in the 14-hour rule. It pushes you into driving tired, thru traffic, into weather. It's highly dangerous.

  35. 35. Bill [ July 18, 2014 @ 09:25AM ]

    Non truck driving idiots making rules for all drivers. Dont know how many times i have pulled in to a truck stop and take a 2 to 3 hour nap to wait out traffic or bad weather. and after the nap wake up fresh and ready to go. All this will do is make me run harder. This wont stop people from being safer, drivers will get more aggressive so that they wont loose a minute. Smoking kills a lot more people then drivers, should they tell everyone when they can smoke and cant? This will put out a lot of O/O like my self out of business. I will not have anyone tell me when I can and cant drive. This will force me to be away from home more. Wake up people why are we giving our freedoms away?

  36. 36. Justin [ July 18, 2014 @ 11:13AM ]

    Of course all the bigwigs support it, they are the ones who have never been within fifty feet of a truck (voluntarily) except to drain money from a hardworking driver or to sooth the cries of lobbyist groups that don't understand how the world works. The economy is based on supply and demand and the effectiveness of trade. The demand of the people for their products does not comply with a set of rules because they want it to. What's next, orange "uniforms" with serial numbers??? It'd be nice to have some rights in this industry again. Why don't the gov't officials do a little research and find out what happens when a traffic jam causes a driver to run out of hours, not make his deadline and earn the company a late fine as many large corporate customers are doing and getting away with. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Not to mention all the loopholes in the system for idiotic 4-wheelers pulling stupid stunts and causing accidents to pass the blame off to a trucker and ruin the lives of them and their families because he couldn't find a parking spot and decided to try the next one when suddenly Mr. Important in the car decided to cut off the truck. This industry has become an absolute disgrace of embezzlement and extortion and I for one can't go hardly a day anymore without regretting ever getting into it. And for what it's worth yes I'm young by most peoples standards, 28 and have been driving just about ten years after eleven years being the kid who dreamt of growing up and driving a big truck. Be immature and bash me because I'm just a "young punk" or whatever you want, but I can plainly see why nobody wants to do this anymore and why courtesy is a thing of the past. The "there's no more fun in this job" ship sailed a long time ago, now it's more like a prison term. My prediction is the more rules they make the more the economy is going to suffer. As for highway safety? The trucks aren't the problem, We're out here to make a living like everybody else except the highways are our offices. It's the 4-wheelers that drive like everybody else on the road is nothing but an obstacle to dodge that causes the death and dismemberment which gets falsely portrayed as a truckers fault because he didn't draw a line exactly how the Man told him to. Enforce the cars. They can go as fast as they want, don't have to posess more than a grade-school knowledge on how roadways operate, and in REALITY would be doing GOOD to have a quarter of the real-world experience on the roads in their lifetimes as most truckers have in five years.

    Would you let civilians roam freely on an active mortar range with no prior knowledge and then blame the soldier if one of the civilians wandered out and got blown up? These days, probably. It wouldn't be right, but the justice system would find a way.

    And to those of you who are already calling me out on every word I've said because you don't like somebody standing up for what's right instead of what you're told is right, grow a pair, learn to think for yourself, and try looking at the big picture instead for once in your lives.

    Because if you don't, one day you won't have drivers that can save lives by seeing bad decisions by the telltale signs before they happen, you'll have trucks driven by computers that will daily be killing families because they can't.

    ...that is if anybody can afford to build them with the magnificent shambles that's being made of our modern society. When e-logs become mandatory I'm going to work at McDonald's. At least I'll be guaranteed the paycheck I'm earning instead of risking it.

  37. 37. Tim [ July 18, 2014 @ 02:55PM ]

    The problem with ELD's isn't so much the device itself, it's the HOS rules they're based on. Garbage in, garbage out...

  38. 38. Winston Smith [ July 19, 2014 @ 10:43AM ]

    Hey,
    Here is an Idea - if the government wants them in the truck then let the government PAY for them to be installed and monitored ...
    See how many people support the government paying for all that 'safety' instead of the drivers who are just trying to earn a living.

  39. 39. Tim Hendricks [ July 21, 2014 @ 06:03AM ]

    For all the post saying that EOBR's will slow you down or wont allow you to take a nap or cause you to run in traffic and all the other excuses. QUIT RUNNING ILLEGAL in the first place. The only thing the EOBR's do is keep you running by the law. It is time to quit being renegade trucks and start obeying the law.

  40. 40. Jamard [ July 22, 2014 @ 12:01PM ]

    To Mr Tim Hendricks. You sound like someone who's never driven a truck before....at least not over the road. You can make money with e logs only while doing it illegally. I drove with them for a year over the road and they aren't safe for the trucking industry.

    For example the TRUCK COMPANY can manipulate hours at anytime.

    DOT officers become more invasive into a drivers privacy.

    They cost thousands of dollars and only a select few can afford them.

    There is NO PROOF that they improve safety.

    It does not solve the issue of Shippers and receivers holding drivers up for hours and then kicking them off their property when they're out of hours.

    What's more, drivers still need time to weigh a load, do personal hygiene and laundry, eat and do paperwork. Can't get it done with a computer and individuals in an office with NO EXPERIENCE DRIVEN A TRUCK harassing the driver.

    DOT officers are now mostly state troopers who haven't even read all of CSA rules because quite frankly it's boring to them. They look up a code to what they think see is wrong from a book and cite the driver.

    You cannot simply regulate safety by over regulating drivers. To regulate is like chasing the wind ir trying to turn lead into gold. The 4 wheelers or drivers of cars don't have regulated driving hours, governed speeds and pay less road taxes.

    CARS are the cause of most truck crashes. Nothing is being done about risky driving behaviors of car drivers. Some crash into big trucks deliberately to collect insurance money.

    Furthermore on safety, FMCSA Administrator/Idiot Anne Ferro who's only experience with a big truck I'd riding in one for TWO DAYS, has said she's shooting for zero fatalities and it's a realistic goal. She says this because of the aviation does it already.

    Anne Ferro must have forgotten about 4 planes that got hijacked and none survived or much recently the Malaysia flight that is still missing or the one that was just recently shot down.

    Comparing trucks to airplanes is exactly like comparing apples to oranges. Planes don't fly in every type of weather...nor can they haul everything. When a plane crashes almost 100% of the time everyone on board is dead and they die by the hundreds at one time.

    Trucks drive in all weather conditions including major storms, can haul EVERYTHING, and can park in tight spots....airplanes can't.

    It's only individuals who've never driven a truck, formerly driven one or those with simple routes and drive very little are approving of this ill-advised, biased and willfully ignorant approach in the name of safety. Electronic Logging Devices are wrong for the trucking industry.

  41. 41. vey66 [ September 24, 2014 @ 07:58AM ]

    Has anyone actually seen any stats on accidents with paper vrs elec. Logs. You might be surprised.

  42. 42. spoiltrottn_3 [ November 01, 2014 @ 06:39PM ]

    I have to agree with the sarcasm of Tracy Morgan. It doesn't matter what type of logs, paper vs ELD a driver uses. If you are tired and need sleep, GO TO BED!!! If you have to sleep, several hours and it will mess up your 11 hr, stay in bed until you can start your 14hrs over again!!!
    Loads can be rescheduled, appointments remade. No one's life is worth the cost of freight and equipment. The cost of surgeries to repair the physical damage to a person, as well as the costs incurred for emotional & psychological damage can far exceed the cost of freight & equipment.
    You drivers who are arguing over paper vs ELD's need to quit arguing over sleep deprivation, after all, it is YOUR choice to drive tired, NOT your dispatcher's!!!! IF you are being harassed to run and threatened with the loss of your employment, report them to agencies like SAFER or the FMCSA, or DOT. Someone can and will direct you to the appropriate organization to help you!!!

 

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